proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

gaucho · 2013-04-26 08:05:25

On Jonathan Westhues website i found the gerbers and the bill of material.
The Bill of material is incomplete and obsolete (some rows are missing or incomplete and some components are obsolete)
The gerber is distributed on 3 layers.

I read on the forum that a new version of pcb has been issued. this new version should use only 2 layers pcb, but i can't find the gerber and bill of material and, most important, it seems to have some problems. Can you confirm?

On https://code.google.com/p/proxmark3/source/browse/trunk/doc/ I found a .brd file that seems to be updated. Can you confirm that this file is ok to build the proxmark?

I didn't understood the following:
Which are the working version? which is completely debugged?

I want to check which is the pure cost of the proxmark and check if we can make it cheaper.

May be the 2 layers version could be cheaper..

Last edited by gaucho (2013-04-26 16:13:33)

vivat · 2013-04-26 16:18:03

There is original PM3 by Jonathan Westhues(4 layers), PM3 LCD by d18c7db(2 layers) and Bizongod's mod. Most people use J.Westhues design. This board is being sold on ebay etc, you can see a label "Jonathan Westhues" on it. It actively discussed on this forum.
PM3 LCD have some issues with HF. It's not stable as pm3. It's not being developed as far as I know.

gaucho · 2013-04-27 09:48:17

Thank you for your reply Vivat,
do you think it's ok to use the .brd file found on https://code.google.com/p/proxmark3/source/browse/trunk/doc/ ?
I'm not an expert of eagle but i've seen that the bill of material and gerber is included in the .brd file. So a manufacturer doesn't need nothing more than the .brd file to build the PCBA.
I asked for a quotation. I'll let you know the price. Did you do this before me?
I've seen that the lower price of the board, included antennas and cables, that i found on the web is 180€.
If i can save 30% I'll leave the idea, but if i can save 100% I'll try.

gaucho · 2013-04-30 12:53:35

Hi all,

the received quotations (I'm still waiting some quotations) are: about 180€ for a single board with soldered components . About 70€ for 10 boards with soldered components. Less for high quantity.

We can think to buy it in group. Anyone interested? We need at least 10 people, better if more. Let's say that the cost included firmware upload and shipping cost to you it could be 90€

May be I can buy 2 of these 10 proxmark, then we need at least 8 people.

Last edited by gaucho (2013-05-04 11:39:52)

rule · 2013-05-03 08:55:05

If you can deliver working (tested) proxmarks for 90,- each, you can count me in to buy two of those as well.

Can you make sure they replace the AT91SAM7S256 with the AT91SAM7S512. Price difference is negligible. They are pin-compatible and work both with the proxmark firmware. Bigger one is just more future-firmware proof

gaucho · 2013-05-03 10:21:32

ok Roel, we need just more 6 persons to do it.
Consider that Laser is doing a very good price. Very good alternative if I will not buy these 10 units.

It's a pleasure to read an answer to my post from the famous "Roel". I suppose you are the same Roel found on many sources revisions on Proxmark Google code site.

I don't know if you read my question on the forum, but it could be very usefull a document with the interface between proxmark and the usb, in order to simplify the porting of the client to other languages like java or .net. I asked it here ( http://www.proxmark.org/forum/viewtopic … 7024#p7024 ) . take a look at it and let me know your opinion. Thank you.

Last edited by gaucho (2013-05-03 10:23:23)

vivat · 2013-05-03 11:42:36

I would buy tested PM3 with SAM7S512 for 90 EUR. Does this price include shipping?

Neuer_User · 2013-05-03 12:24:05

Count me in. I would take one.

Is it possible to get a bill somehow?

gaucho · 2013-05-03 15:32:28

I'm not a seller. I'm just an user like you. I'm not selling you anything. Just buying an item in group.
So I think i can not give you a recepit.

@vivat: the shipping is included. I don't want to earn money from these 10 cards. Of course I don't want to loose money.
may be we can even spend less than 90€, but this is just to see if we are at least 10.

Last edited by gaucho (2013-05-03 16:55:24)

gaucho · 2013-05-03 16:23:35

Sorry Roel,
the AT91SAM7S256 is present in the xls file found on google code, but inside the .brd file there is an old AT91SAM7S64.
My fear is that inside .brd eagle file it could be present some more errors on the gerber..

Could it be possible in your opinion? This question cause just I don't know who updaded the eagle file and the excel file.

there are some differences between the BOM included in the .brd eagle file and .xls excel file.
Could you confirm the following:
1) empty rows are "Do Not Populate" components, components to do not solder
2) the excel file is the correct file for components list and the .brd should be used only for the pcb layout.
3)R45 and R46 are reported 2 times on the excel file. one time with value of 10k and one time with value of 33. on the .brd file the value is 10k, so i suppose that the right value is 10k.
4)some resistors were DNP (do not populate) on the .brd but now on the excel file they are "zero ohm" resistors. quite strange.. i suppose that the excel file is the most updated file..
5)the SV5 (HEADER-MALE-6X1) is mounted on the .brd but it should not be mounted on the .xls file.. i suppose the excel file is the most updated file..
6) some components, capacitors and resistors changed its value.. i suppose that the excel file is the most updated file..

Last edited by gaucho (2013-05-04 08:37:53)

gaucho · 2013-05-08 10:42:48

I'm still waiting the answers to my previous message questions.

Anyway: I had an updated quotation with new components and corrections.
The pure cost of the board (ordering 10 pieces with shipping to me) is about 80€.
the shipment to you is about 10€.
If you even want an antenna, I think we can have it for 8€ more.

I'm not sure to continue this idea..
Anyway, Asper told me he can buy one if we need its help.

We just need 3 more guys.

p.s.: In case the customs will find our package from china, we will have to add about 20€ of fees for each board.

Last edited by gaucho (2013-05-08 10:49:51)

elektryk · 2013-05-24 10:51:57

Gaucho I am interested in buying proxmark in Europe.
Is this price 80 euros per one fully assembled board or per 10 unassembled boards?
How can we contact privatelly?

gaucho · 2013-05-24 16:36:56

the board is pcb with soldered components. you can find my skype/msn/mail contact on my profile. yes i'm in Europe. it seems now we need just 2 more guys.

dogfriend · 2013-06-02 00:07:23

did you already reached the ten peeps ??? i would like to buy a pm3 + all components (hf & lf antenna; cables and some tags if possible) ..... is the price still the same ??

best regards oliver

gaucho · 2013-06-02 11:59:51

Oliver, we're waiting someone else to reach the required number, as you can read.
We need just one more guy.

dogfriend · 2013-06-02 12:15:23

hi gaucho,

do u have skype or any messenger ?? would be far easier to communicate cauz @ this forum i can't even write pm's ..... just contact me via email form - maybe we find an arrangement and i will buy 2 x proxmark3 .... but i have some questions before i will buy the stuff !

regards oliver

dogfriend · 2013-06-02 15:39:45

i've added u to msn... please reply asap ..thx m8

gaucho · 2013-06-02 18:03:12

Hi mate, I use that email (registered as msn account) with skype (it now integrates even msn accounts as far as i know) and I also use it as a common mail.
Unfortunately now I'm not @ home.
I made the same observation. It's FluxBB, they don't use phpBB like most of the forums on the web.

EDIT: Ops! I've seen now you're a "member", maybe you're the one who chose FluxBB. LOL

EDIT2: mm.. may be "member" here is intended not as STAFF MEMBER but as COMMON MEMBER..

Last edited by gaucho (2013-06-02 18:08:33)

dogfriend · 2013-06-02 18:15:59

mmmmh , who knows ^^ ... and yeah sure i added you to my skype .... my skype is awaiting your confirmation of the add

fjodorr · 2013-06-04 13:20:11

I´m also interested in one piece of proxmark including antennas.

Would be neet to have a testboard.

gaucho · 2013-06-04 19:51:39

fjodoor with you we are only 9 cause my friend told me that he is no more interested in the proxmark so i will buy only one piece, not 2. I need to ask dogfriend if he wants 2 pieces. for the antennas i should now find the project and ask for a quotation.
the cables must be found by you. is it a problem?

gaucho · 2013-06-04 20:17:22

What do you mean for testboard?
This is what i'm planning to do:
1)buy assembled cards
2)flash firmware
3)test boards
4)upload here pictures and screenshot of test logs.
5)send to you the board.

We can decide together which tests to perform. (it should be fast)

fjodorr · 2013-06-05 15:34:01

No problem with the cables.

By testboard I actually meant development board. I´m rewriting the FPGA code so it would be nice to test my expremental code on a seperate board.

gaucho · 2013-06-05 18:36:10

I was looking for an antenna project but I found the following:
1) Jonathan Westhues released a LF antenna PCB design but I suppose it is needed some adjustment to the project and, more important, i'm interested in HF antenna.
2) On http://www.sonmicro.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59&Itemid=72 you can buy HF antenna for very low price.
3) On http://code.google.com/p/proxmark3/wiki/Antennas you can read how to create an antenna from a cable.

If you agree with me, we will buy together only the proxmark board.
..Otherwise point me to a working HF antenna project.

Last edited by gaucho (2013-06-05 18:36:38)

gaucho · 2013-06-05 19:29:29

Ok, now we are ten, here how the quantity is distributed:
Quantity 1 Gaucho
Quantity 2 Roel
Quantity 1 Asper
Quantity 1 Vivat
Quantity 1 Neuer_User
Quantity 1 elektryk
Quantity 2 dogfriend
Quantity 1 fjodorr

Is it correct?
Now I need each one of you to write me an email in order to have a direct link with you.
I still have the email of Asper, dogfriend and Vivat, so I'm missing the rest.
You will find my email on my profile.

Last edited by gaucho (2013-06-05 19:35:50)

gaucho · 2013-06-10 18:16:30

I miss only the direct contact of Roel.
When he will write me an email we will proceed to the next step. If someone of you knows him, tell him to contact me by mail.

Last edited by gaucho (2013-06-13 12:50:41)

gaucho · 2013-06-16 10:27:12

Roel doesn't answers to emails i wrote.
We need at least one more guy to join the group.
Let's wait..

vivat · 2013-06-16 15:56:25

Maybe he is on vacation?

Neuer_User · 2013-07-04 07:01:47

Gaucho has contacted us during the last week to inform us about the latest news:

It seems currently there is only interest in purchasing 7 boards from six buyers, so less than was planned.

On the other hand, gaucho told us that dogfriend has got another offer for finished proxmarks (standard board with 256k ARM) from a chinese seller at an extremely good price: 108 USD for proxmark3 plus HF and LF antennas, Additionally magic cards for 5 USD each.

This actually would be nearly unbelievably good, as the price on the sellers website is normally still 220 USD (for >= 5 pieces) and the magic cards defaut price is 25 USD.

So, the next questions are:

- Do the 6 interested buyers like to go for this offer?
- How do we get in contact with dogfriend to get his personal data (name, address, bank account)? I suggest, if everybody agrees that gaucho could send dogfriend our email addresses.

Cheers,

Michael

P.S.: Are there any people on the board who know personally dogfriend? Would be nice just to be sure to whom we transfer >100 USD.

gaucho · 2013-07-04 18:46:15

I agree with everything Michael wrote.
I think it's hard to check a person honesty on the web, but we can try, if dogfriend agrees.
About the seller, could anyone check the honesty of aliexpress seller? do you know how it works? On ebay i can check how many items it sells per month or on last year so if he is a real shop it will have many feedbacks and many selled items, in that case i trust a shop, otherwise i don't.
I don't know how aliexpress works, i never bought on it.

If we trust in the seller, we can later decide that the person to do this group buy for us can be dogfriend, or if you prefer, it can be me.

About my honesty you don't have nothing apart the posts on this forum where i contributed with some opensource tools, even if i still don't have the proxmark!! it doens'nt mean anything but it's a fact.

p.s.:each one of you has the dogfriend emails. one is for the payment (he wrote me from that email) and the other one (in copy recipients of my last email) to contact him.
Note that he never wrote me from this second e-mail even if he said that it is its main e-mail.

Last edited by gaucho (2013-07-04 18:53:11)

elektryk · 2013-07-04 22:02:47

For me price offer is very good.
From what I see aliexpress is like ebay, people buys items from seller and give a feedback for seller. Aliexpress is only agent, I have heard that some people were buying some items without problems. Probably it depends on seller, it will be very hard to find any friend who was buying anything from this particular seler.

gaucho · 2013-07-05 18:27:37

update: dogfriend wrote me from its primary mail. he even sent me its telephone numer. I will not call him cause i think this is not a way to check the honesty of a person. he even said to me that the seller made him a lower price for the magic cards. I wrote a wrong price, he said that the price for each magic card is 3€. I'm not sure which is the card he is talking about.

Someone of you reported the strange very low price for items compared to price of the online shop. This could be not relevant, cause the real price for the producer could be really lower..

@elektyk: you are right but i think there is a method to know if the seller is reliable. In example for me on ebay it's easy to know if i can trust in a seller: if i see that on last month he selled 40000 items, i can be sure 100% that he is reliable. What about aliexpress?

does someone of you knows how aliexpress works in order to check reliability of the seller, according to what i wrote to elektyk?

Thank you.

Last edited by gaucho (2013-07-05 18:29:37)

vivat · 2013-07-08 09:48:57

I bought mifare 1k "magic cards" for 6 USD(without shipping) from
http://rfidshop.com.hk/. This was lowest price at that moment. I don't
need another cards.

I'm buyer on eBay and Aliexpress. Aliexpress use Escrow buyer protection
program. It similar to Paypal that's on eBay, but works different. The
main idea is when buyer sends cash to seller, the money is being keep by
Escrow. Seller can't receive any penny until buyer presses "confirm order
recieved" button or time expires(usually 30 days, but you can extended
waiting time). If buyer didn't receive parcel, he opens dispute. I had one
issue with seller on Aliexpress, but they have solved my problems and
refunded me. Aliexpress have discounts and coupons, you can google it.

elektryk · 2013-07-18 11:53:09

Can anyone clarify what is status of our gruop-buy?

albertito12 · 2013-08-05 00:39:54

hello.
I am also interested in getting a card mounted ... Although we are in the holiday month, you know that if we make a little purchase, you can count on me.
Greetings from Spain.

gaucho · 2013-08-05 09:13:35

Hi, few updates: the aliexpress seller didn't make me a good price. He said i can't get that such cheap price i asked him.
So i suggest to forget the dogfriend proposal. If he want he can join our group buy from the manufacturer.
Let's come back to our original idea, buying the pcba from china from a manufacturer.
The problem is that we are less than 10. Roel didn't wrote me.
Albertito, could you write me by mail with your city and quantity?

dogfriend · 2013-08-08 21:50:46

hahahaha i still get this low price i told
US $140 for the complete unit (pm3 + hf antenna + lf antenna + cables) and UID changeables for US $3 ....
this is the result as a penalty that someone of your customers was talking about me and called me "a lamer" !!!!
i told my vendor NOT to give any of you new "customers" the same exclusive fine price because you are liars and you only buy the proxmark 3 ONCE
yes, i also know that "roel" has bought dozens of the pm3 from "rfid shop" and he has to pay US $178 for the complete unit. you can ask him to proof what i am telling you

so, for the future i hope you LEARNED and do never treat anyone that you don't even know that bad again !!! THIS IS THE PRICE YOU PAY NOW

Last edited by dogfriend (2013-08-08 22:00:11)

dogfriend · 2013-08-08 21:58:55

hahahaha, one more thing .... don't belive the spoofed email you got from "oliver bender" was real ... this is not my real name nor the phonenumber ... this one is just a virtuell number redirected to a physical station .... someone like me, so sophisticated in computing and networking WON'T ever give out informations someone he DON'T know
maybe you now learned something for life ^^

asper · 2013-08-08 23:53:29

Everybody had been polite with you, your answer is far away excessive. After your last sentences what I learnt is to avoid people like you dogfriend.

Neuer_User · 2013-08-09 07:30:55

glad we now know what character dogfriend has, and very glad we did not send him our money...

@gaucho: if we can get 10 buyers for your manufacturer group buy, I will still be with you. How many are we currently?

Maybe it makes sense to open a new thread with a better title ("Proxmark3 group buy"), so it will be easier for new people to participate (instead of reading lots of messages in a thread about "gerbers and bill of material"?

dogfriend wrote:

hahahaha i still get this low price i told
US $140 for the complete unit (pm3 + hf antenna + lf antenna + cables) and UID changeables for US $3 ....
this is the result as a penalty that someone of your fucking customers was talking shit about me and called me "a lamer" !!!!
i told my vendor NOT to give any of you new "customers" the same exclusive fine price because you are liars and you only buy the proxmark 3 ONCE
yes, i also know that "roel" has bought dozens of the pm3 from "rfid shop" and he has to pay US $178 for the complete unit. you can ask him to proof what i am telling you

so, for the future i hope you LEARNED and do never treat anyone that you don't even know that bad again !!! go an FUCK YOU BUNCH OF ASSHOLES !!! THIS IS THE PRICE YOU PAY NOW

gaucho · 2013-08-10 08:03:07

Included albertito, we miss 3 pieces. If i will choose to buy 2 pieces instead of one, we will miss only 2 pieces.

dogfriend · 2013-08-10 10:15:58

Neuer_User wrote:

glad we now know what character dogfriend has, and very glad we did not send him our money...
@gaucho: if we can get 10 buyers for your manufacturer group buy, I will still be with you. How many are we currently?
Maybe it makes sense to open a new thread with a better title ("Proxmark3 group buy"), so it will be easier for new people to participate (instead of reading lots of messages in a thread about "gerbers and bill of material"?
dogfriend wrote:
hahahaha i still get this low price i told
US $140 for the complete unit (pm3 + hf antenna + lf antenna + cables) and UID changeables for US $3 ....
this is the result as a penalty that someone of your customers was talking about me and called me "a lamer" !!!!
i told my vendor NOT to give any of you new "customers" the same exclusive fine price because you are liars and you only buy the proxmark 3 ONCE
yes, i also know that "roel" has bought dozens of the pm3 from "rfid shop" and he has to pay US $178 for the complete unit. you can ask him to proof what i am telling you

so, for the future i hope you LEARNED and do never treat anyone that you don't even know that bad again !!! !!! THIS IS THE PRICE YOU PAY NOW

you don't get it. you guys could have bought it to the favorable price of US $ 140 for the complete unit but now you have to pay the higher price from someone else.

this is the point !!! but i don't care you guys still dind't learn ANYTHING

asper · 2013-08-10 12:21:29

Well, you seems to care if you insist in writing your unuseful stuff. I am glad to see that someone in the world has something to teach to others... maybe you should start to learn nice manners and, again, hope having nothing to deal with you

Does anyone knows if roel is still "alive" ?

Peter80 · 2013-08-11 10:57:07

gaucho wrote:

Included albertito, we miss 3 pieces. If i will choose to buy 2 pieces instead of one, we will miss only 2 pieces.

Hi Gaucho,

i am new here at the Proxmark forum and interested in group buying a Proxmark3. Do you know any prices so far? A UID changeable Magic Card would be great too. Is this also possible?

Thank you for your effort here.

vivat · 2013-08-11 19:45:29

Hey Gaucho
Since lavabit is shut down forever, I have to pick another secure email address, don't miss me!

gaucho · 2013-08-13 14:29:42

@vivat: ok, just write me from your new mail.
@peter80: price is written on discussion: 90€ shipped to you. If you are interested write me private mail (find it on my profile) with your country and quantity of boards. For Antennas and cables you can make it by your self as shown on internet or you can buy them from online sellers for about 30€.

vivat · 2013-08-22 06:42:46

Hey Gaucho
check your mail

Peter80 · 2013-08-27 11:09:33

Hi Gaucho,

90€ with shipping? But just the PM3 ? Do you know some sites where i can get those antennas for 30€ ?? I didn't find such cheap antennas which will work on the PM3.
Can you also tell me where to buy these UID changeable Magic Cards?? They are expensive as hell.

Thank you in advance.

vivat · 2013-08-27 16:10:08

You can easily build the antennas yourself if you have a hirose cable. You don't need soldering skills at all.
Mifare Magic card is for 6 USD at rfidshop.com.hk , but if you know chinese or have some friends from china, you can easily buy for 1.3 USD:
http://www.proxmark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7953#p7953

Enio · 2013-09-24 19:07:51

Hey all,

i'm interested in a PM3 device too and already sent a mail.

Best regards,
Enio

Proxmark3 community

Announcement

#1 2013-04-26 08:05:25

proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#2 2013-04-26 16:18:03

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#3 2013-04-27 09:48:17

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#4 2013-04-30 12:53:35

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#5 2013-05-03 08:55:05

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

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Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

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Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

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Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

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Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

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Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

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Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

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Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#13 2013-05-24 16:36:56

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#14 2013-06-02 00:07:23

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#15 2013-06-02 11:59:51

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#16 2013-06-02 12:15:23

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#17 2013-06-02 15:39:45

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

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Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#19 2013-06-02 18:15:59

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#20 2013-06-04 13:20:11

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#21 2013-06-04 19:51:39

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#22 2013-06-04 20:17:22

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#23 2013-06-05 15:34:01

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#24 2013-06-05 18:36:10

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#25 2013-06-05 19:29:29

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#26 2013-06-10 18:16:30

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#27 2013-06-16 10:27:12

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#28 2013-06-16 15:56:25

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#29 2013-07-04 07:01:47

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#30 2013-07-04 18:46:15

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#31 2013-07-04 22:02:47

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#32 2013-07-05 18:27:37

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#33 2013-07-08 09:48:57

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#34 2013-07-18 11:53:09

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#35 2013-08-05 00:39:54

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#36 2013-08-05 09:13:35

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#37 2013-08-08 21:50:46

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#38 2013-08-08 21:58:55

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material

#39 2013-08-08 23:53:29

Re: proxmark3 gerbers and bill of material